Azerbaijan also invaded the Armenian land of Nagorno-Karabakh with the help of colonial Iran and then colonial Russia.
Armenian people were living in Nagorno Karabakh for thousands of years till the Azery Government started to settle Azeries there to change the demographics.
Are Muslims able to see their double standards when they blame Israelis for invading Palestine but don't blame Azeris for the same thing?
Turkey killed millions in the Armenian Genocide in 1915 and made the whole area of Western Armenia a part of Turkey. Again Muslims are unable to see their double standards where they blame only Jews for being invaders but utter no words against the same things that their Muslim brothers did on a much bigger level.
We have no love affair with the wrongdoings of Israel and Zionists. We would have opposed a Zionist state in 1948. But today Israel is a reality, just like it is a reality that the historic Western Armenia is a part of Turkey, or just like Pakistan is a reality and no more a part of India, even if the British conspired against the majority of the population of India of that time and created Pakistan against their wish.
The situation of today is clear, there should exist no Iran or Taliban type Muslim Palestinian State under the influence of Hamas, where non-Muslims have to live under fear and have no equal rights to preach their religion and convert people to their religion and to criticize Islam. Where LGBT members are thrown down from high buildings while they also don't have any rights to exist. Where ex-Muslims are lynched and killed brutally for their crime of leaving Islam. Why should we ever support such oppressive Islamic states? Why should we not criticize the double standards of Muslims where they are quick to demand equal rights to preach Islam and convert people to Islam in non-Muslim countries, but are not ready to give us the same human rights?
Muslims want to talk about Islamophobia and invasion by Jews, then let us also talk about double standards and homophobia and Murtadphobia (i.e. Apostatephobia) and Kafirophobia of Muslims.
- Just like Palestinians, the Armenian people were living for thousands of years in Nagorno-Karabakh.
- Britain was not the only COLONIAL Power which allowed the Jews to settle in Palestine, but Iran and Russia (and later the USSR) were also the Colonial Powers, that captured Nagorno-Karabakh, and by force kept Nagorno Karabakh a part of Azerbaijan. This was the colonial era in which Azerbaijanis were facilitated to settle in Nagorno-Karabakh to change the demography. In 1823 the five districts corresponding roughly to modern-day Nagorno-Karabakh were 90.8% Armenian-populated.
- The Armenian people of Nagorno-Karabakh were doing an armed protest and struggle against it, they never accepted to be a part of Azerbaijan. But when the USSR captured Nagorno-Karabakh, they declared it to be a part of Azerbaijan, with a certain level of autonomy. But making it an autonomous area was not enough, it should have been solved according to the wishes of the local people, who wanted themselves to be free from Azerbaijan.
- And in 1945, UNO was formed, then it was weak, and it was not possible for UNO to settle all disputes totally with JUSTICE. Thus, under the influence of the USSR, the UN resolutions were passed which made Nagorno-Karabakh a part of Azerbaijan, against its thousands of years long history and against the wishes of the majority of Armenian people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagorno-Karabakh
Now the Western people accepted the creation of Israel, in the light of the resolutions of UNO. In the same way, they also accepted the Christian Nagorno-Karabakh as a part of Azerbaijan, in the light of the same UNO resolutions.
The problem here is about the double standards of religious Muslims. Religious Muslims happily accepted Christian Nagorno-Karabakh to be a part of Muslim Azerbaijan.
- But they denied accepting the creation of Israel, despite the UN resolutions.
- All Arab States (including PALESTINIANS) accepted Nagorno-Karabakh as a part of Azerbaijan ... Yes, Palestinians too (link).
- All religious Muslims today support the occupation of Azerbaijan, upon the Armenian lands.
- They also support the demographic shift of population by Azerbaijan during its occupation of the Armenian lands. It is the same when Israel tries to change the demography by settling Jews in illegal settlements.
But when the same thing is done by Israelis to Muslims in Palestine, then these same religious Muslims protest against it.
Even WORSE, religious Muslims supported Turkey and denied the genocide of the Armenian people in 1915
- Israel never did any genocide of Palestinian people on such a scale as Turkey did.
- But it was Turkey which did the genocide of the Armenian people in 1915 and made the entire historical Western Armenia, a part of Turkey. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide
- And all religious Muslims are fully satisfied with this genocide of Armenians and the occupation of their lands, and they have no problem with it.
This is what religious people will do to you every time. Their double standards become limitless due to their religious bias. They care only for their own interests.
Atheist's Stance on the Israel-Palestinian Issue:
Atheists are not a religious group, who can have the same opinion on any issue. Nevertheless, some things which are most common among Secular Atheists, are as under:
- Both religious Muslims and religious Jews are a part of the problem.
- Zionists rejected the Uganda Scheme, which was there to provide “safety” to Jews.
- Zionists chose Palestine, instead of the Uganda Scheme. This was not for safety purposes, but it was more due to Religious factors.
- As atheists, it is difficult to accept the formation of any state, solely on the basis of religion.
- This same religious factor is involved in illegal settlements today. Religious Jews believe that their God promised them the entire "Greater Isreal", thus it is their birthright to capture the whole of Palestine. Yes, the illegal settlements are only a part of it, while their claim goes beyond this (i.e. to the formation of the Greater Israel). They cite the history of Jews (which happened thousands of years ago) and use it as an argument for illegal settlements and expulsion of Palestinians from their land. Religious Jews will not settle on the present borders of Israel, but they will go for Greater Israel, as it is their birthright in their opinion. At the moment, the UN does not recognise this birthright of Jews for Greater Israel (or even for illegal settlements) in the name of thousands of old history of Jews in this land.
- On the other hand, religious Muslims also consider the whole of Palestine as their birthright, while their Allah promised them the entire world. Their opinion is they have a birthright to attack any land in the world, capture it, and impose Islamic Sharia there.
We, as atheists, don't accept that there exists any Jewish GOD, and we don't accept that Jews have any birthright upon the entire “Greater Israel”. We also don't recognise that Muslims have the birthright to attack and capture any land in the world in order to impose Islamic Sharia there.
Many of us consider that:
- The creation of Israel was not ideal, but since it has been created through UN resolution, thus it has now a full right to exist.
- Israel was not the only problem, but many other lands and areas also had similar problems.
- This world is not an ideal place. Colonial rule was ending at that time, and UNO was in its infancy. It was not possible for a weak UN at that time to bring justice to everyone. A lot of compromises (right and wrong) were made at that time.
What many of us want to see is:
- Both the religions of Islam and Judaism should lose their influence in the political life of the people of this land.
- All of them should learn how to integrate into one secular society.
- Marriages should be open between them, while both are humans first.
Without true secularism, if we let both religious factions become stronger, then we will see only war and destruction in the future.
This is the curse of religions:
- The religious communities lived for thousands of years side by side, but still they didn't integrate with each other.
- In every century, they went to war, and they massacred each other in the name of religion.
- If the secular forces fail to break the influence of religion on both sides, then both these two communities will keep on fighting each other for the next thousands of years. It is possible that the stronger one will completely massacre/genocide the other one, but it is not possible for them to integrate even after living for thousands of years side by side.
For the sake of humanity, it is important that SECULARISM prevails in both communities and that the radical religious elements get defeated.
Here is Christopher Hitchens on the Palestinian-Israel conflict. We can learn a lot from this great freethinker:
Moreover, many of us also believe that:
- An independent Palestinian State should not be supported in its present FORM.
- Atheists have absolutely no Civil Rights in Palestine, while it still follows Islamic Sharia.
- They are put in prison and tortured if they criticize Islam. Draconian Blasphemy laws are still present there.
- They are not allowed to have their own institutions, where they can openly preach their ideology.
- Atheists and Muslims cannot marry each other. Specially, Muslim women are not allowed to marry men of other religions.
- Hamas in Gaza has even more Draconian Islamic Laws.
The situation of today is clear, there should exist no Muslim Palestinian State under the influence of Hamas, where non-Muslims have to live under fear and have no equal rights to preach their religion and convert people to their religion and to criticize Islam. Where LGBT members are thrown down from high buildings while they also don't have any rights to exist. Where ex-Muslims are lynched and killed brutally for their crime of leaving Islam. Why should we ever support such oppressive Islamic states? Why should we not criticize the double standards of Muslims where they are quick to demand equal rights to preach Islam and convert people to Islam in non-Muslim countries, but are not ready to give us the same human rights?
Muslims want to talk about Islamophobia and invasion by Jews, then let us also talk about double standards and homophobia and Murtadphobia and Kafirophobia of Muslims.